@saper hehe :-) Funny, I had idly noticed the parallels between my efforts to clarify this and the attempts to clarify the origin of #Linux
@saper although the correct pedantic format would, I think, be more like Fediverse/Mastodon ;P
@saper but honestly, I just want to make sure the flood of new users on #Mastodon instances know they can connect with people on other apps
@saper they can follow/ be followed by/ @mention users on instances of #GNUSocial, #Diaspora, #Friendica, #Hubzilla etc as well as #Mastodon

@strypey @saper I don't think Mastodon users can be followed by Diaspora users. Diaspora cannot into OStatus AFAIK?

@rysiek I can talk to people on #Diaspora from #Quitter se (#GNUSocial + #Qvitter). Haven't tested it from #Mastodon yet, but I presume...

@strypey @rysiek Diaspora people unfortunately cannot see or interact with OStatus people. This may change if we can properly incorporate the OStatus Ruby gem made by Mastodon.

@deadsuperhero @rysiek so #Diaspora can federate with #Friendica and #Hubzilla but not using #OStatus? (deja vu; have I asked this before?)

@strypey @rysiek Friendica and Hubzilla reverse engineered the Diaspora protocol. That's how they communicate historically.

@deadsuperhero @rysiek if I'm using #Friendica / #Hubzilla I can talk to everyone, but not if I'm using #Diaspora or a #GNUSocial variant?

@strypey @rysiek Friendica, Diaspora, Hubzilla all talk to each other through Diaspora. Friendica can also speak OStatus. Hubzilla and Diaspora currently cannot.

@deadsuperhero that's a very concise summary. Can I update my brief history article and quote you on that?
@deadsuperhero do you know if the #Tent fork of #Diaspora ever went anywhere? I saw your comment on the wiki page

@strypey I talked about it with Tent devs, but it never went anywhere. We initially talked to them during the time that Makr.io was a thing. At the time, Tent couldn't support a multi-tenant server that could scale. They eventually spent so much time reinventing the wheel that their entire project went nowhere.

@deadsuperhero so despite still having a site, #Tent is dead? Zombie project?

@strypey It's not really going anywhere. The flagship instance, cupcake.is, appears to still be running. However, the community left a long time ago. Tents biggest problem is that they wanted to reinvent the wheel and had no interest in working with existing protocols or standards bodies.

@deadsuperhero I got that impression. To be quite honest it struck me as a classic case of a solution in search of a problem

@strypey It had a lot of extremely good ideas, but most of what is needed is now possible with ActivityPub.

@deadsuperhero say someone did some legwork recruiting the surviving free code apps with social network functions to join standards work...
@deadsuperhero is there currently a good place to direct them? Or is there a need for a connector until a clear gathering place emerges?
@deadsuperhero I'm aware of social standards incubation going on in a number of places, W3C SocialWG, CTA (dormant), ValueFlows etc

@strypey That's sort of been my informal function for the last several years, but it requires studying each project's internals and user/developer community. I've jumped around about 5 different federated projects overall.

I would say that most of us are starting to lean towards ActivityPub, but there is some apprehension on the whole "Design by Committee" approach to protocol specification.

@deadsuperhero so if I were to do some outreach, the best thing to do would be send interested parties your way? There's no Thing yet?

@strypey It's a difficult situation. There's no central meeting place to hash things out, and occasionally there are hostilities between heads of projects.

It would make sense to direct people towards ActivityPub, but until a project actually seriously pledges to adopt support for it, we're all in sort of a neutral space.

@deadsuperhero @strypey I have reservations about AP's unanswered questions.  Mike Micgivrin raised the good point of the privacy means not being terribly actually private.  I have a mild worry if some of these concerns aren't answered well just kind of end up with OStatus 2.0: the protocol everyone uses because it works across the most use cases but isn't happy with and end up extending in nonstandard ways that kind of break all over the place.  I'm optimistic people might address these concerns based on their enthusiasm for the discussion, but ultimately, time will tell.

@maiyannah @strypey Honestly, I just wish everyone would use Zot instead. But it's way more elaborate and not everyone is capable of understanding it.

@maiyannah @strypey I was about to disagree, but I guess you really could use it for absolutely everything.

@deadsuperhero @maiyannah if #Zot is the better protocol maybe an effort to produce clearer documentation is needed? Perhaps I can help here
@deadsuperhero @maiyannah in that I'm a learner coder/ protocol virgin, so anything I can understand should be generally comprehensible ;P
@strypey @deadsuperhero As I've discussed, in the long term I want protocols to be pluggable.  So you can have a module for ostatus, one for activitypub, one for whatever Diaspora uses, and so forth.  Documenting the variant profiles would make that go quicker though!
@deadsuperhero I think you're onto something with plug-in protocol support @maiyannah as I said in this thread
@strypey @deadsuperhero It's another one of my projects that I am going to do because I feel it is the right way to do things, but I already know is going to take a lot of time and be a headache.  Doing things the right way usually is after all :)
@deadsuperhero @maiyannah to be fair to the legacy apps though, this would require some major refactoring for them. Easier for a newer app
@strypey @deadsuperhero I mean if it became neccesary you could even program software-specific instances, I just hope things don't become that fragmented.
@maiyannah @deadsuperhero you mean instances that bridge between different federations? Like a PostActive instance that speaks OStatus+Zot?
@strypey @deadsuperhero Well the next second step to this is if one server doesn't have a certain protocol is it can ping a server that does, and get it from that.
@maiyannah @deadsuperhero your plug-in idea is better long term. Ad-hoc bridging approaches don't scale as the # of apps increases
@strypey @deadsuperhero Unfortunately in software dev you end up with a lot of short-term solutions because people want the things *now*.
@maiyannah @deadsuperhero sure, and the two aren't mutually exclusive.  Ideally the short term fix doesn't block the long-term solution ;)
@deadsuperhero @maiyannah standard modules for plug-in protocols could be a way to start playing with the IndieWeb approach to
@strypey @deadsuperhero Yeah, it's a lot of _work_ but I don't otherwise see too many downsides with it, and if I get through that it should be easy for someone to pick up or fork postActiv if my health takes a turn for the worse or I no longer can develop it for whatever other reason.
@maiyannah I just had a look at #Plateia, that's #PostActiv at the base with #Qvitter running on top, yes?
@deadsuperhero @maiyannah but it would be great if protocol support was modularized, so for example any Ruby app can use one gem for it
@deadsuperhero @maiyannah maybe there could be a standard PHP module sharable between #GNUSocial and other PHP apps too, and so on
@strypey @deadsuperhero This would be my ideal.  Someone could take postActiv's FederateThing module and build around it for their own support.
@maiyannah @deadsuperhero seems like this approach could significantly reduce wheel reinvention and pool resources on solid protocol support
@strypey @deadsuperhero It also would greatly reduce the costs associated with trying out new things with protocols.  As long as you write a [FederateThing] style module that supports it postActiv will figure the rest out.
@strypey @maiyannah @deadsuperhero Wish I could say something intelligent like that.
Sign in to participate in the conversation
Social Nasqueron

Nasqueron is a budding community of creative people, writers, developers and thinkers. We focus on free culture, ethics and to be a positive change. We share values like respect, justice and equity.